[Shadowrun 5th] Drones

[Chimera]

Shadowrun Drones

Interesting guide: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FxIP7kSm4zuvjtMemq-d40FsBYx6i-NSwRjtpm4gmlc/edit?usp=sharing

Ok, lets start with two classics, i'm not going anywhere near that sword thing right now

Drones - MCT-Nissan Roto-Drone
handl - 4
sped - 4
acel - 2
bod - 4
armor - 4
pilot - 3
sensor - 3
seats - none
avail - 6
cost - 5,000¥
Treat its Body as 3 higher than its actual Rating for determining how many weapon mounts or customizations it can integrate.

Drones - GM-Nissan Doberman
handl - 5
sped - 3
acel - 1
bod - 4
armor - 4
pilot - 3
sensor - 3
seats - none
avail - 4R
cost - 5,000¥
Standard weapon mount

Ok, need confirmation that rigger interface comes standard… There we go - page 265 “Drones are designed for use by riggers, and have been designed with the rigger interface built in.” I know its implied and was in past editions but i'm taking nothing for granted here.

The Device Rating of a drone is the same as its Pilot Rating, meaning all of its Matrix attributes are equal to the Pilot Rating.

Autosofts: A drone has a number of slots to use for autosofts and cyberprograms equal to half its Device Rating, rounded up.
(if i upgrade pilot - does it upgrade device rating and autosofts?)
For cost you need to go to the hotpatch errata
Autosoft Costs - Availability: Rating*2 - Cost: Rating*500¥

p.199 - "Drones are a different story and have a Condition Monitor equal to 6 plus half their Body."
Other than that, the rules for vehicles taking damage still apply, ie electric damagecas physical and ignoring damage where modified DV is lower than it armor (this is effectively just immunity to stun damage).

The second condition monitor of a drone is the matrix condition monitor.
Matrix Condition Monitor has 8 + (Device Rating / 2) boxes. So 8 + pilot/2.

Weapon mounts: Vehicles may be equipped with a number of weapon mounts equal to their unaugmented Body ÷ 3 (round down).
Standard weapon mounts may hold any assault rifle or smaller-sized weapon and 250 rounds of ammo.
Heavy weapon mounts are not available as they are 14 availability.
Recoil - page 176. Body plus recoil compensation.

Starting with the Doberman and going for a cheap but effective gun platform.

For Doberman, stock mount is free. This is a past rule, but sorta backed up by the sword drone. So you can mount a second gun but I won't in this case. Either way I'm going cheap so only looking at using the free one.

OK, assault rifle or smaller... lets just jump strait for assault rifle. Still wanting to keep this fairly budget oriented.
Wait... smartgun. The only referance is p.433 under smart firing platform. Seems to imply it can only be used while jumpped in via VR. But no current referances to drone being able to use it. For now a drone can't be 'mounted' with the smartlink system. So if it was mounted it would only be for the rigger to use when jumped in. Anyone can use a laser sight, and some extra venting would be nice.
Ares Alpha is tempting, but overkill.
Good old trusty AK-97 fits the bill at 950, add top laser sight 125 and gas vent 2 for 400.
Throw in the metric ton of ammo the weapon mount permits, 250 normal rounds at 500.
Highest availability on this is the gas vent at 6.

No use upgrading sensors for now as not planning to target lock. This can be done, page 445.

Next it needs skills.
It can only run 2 at a time, with a complex action to change it out.
The problem is three skills are fairly critical, Clearsight (perception), Maneuvering (Pilot) and Targeting (Gunnery). So, I picture the drone as having three modes:
1) “Run and Gun” loading Maneuvering and Targeting to move and shoot. But lacking good perception it would only be able to attack obvious targets, such as threats in the open or someone shooting at it. This is default combat mode, as maneuvering is used for defence.
2) “Assault Platform” loading Clearsight and Targeting to identify and shoot targets. Would not move as much, but could still move on relatively safe ground.
3) “Patrol Mode” loading Clearsight and Maneuvering to move and search. Would not be able to shoot in this mode, would be a default for perimeter patrol drones.

Keeping this a budget purchase, and mindful that autosofts are expensive. Giving it Clearsight 3, Maneuvering 3 and Targeting 3. Total cost 2250. [Availability 6] [using my cost houserule]

OK, total cost 9,225, at availability 6. Loyal as an unhacked dog brain, not to bright though.

Stat block:

GM-Nissan Doberman [Tracked Drone, Handling 5, Speed 3, Accel 1, Body 4, Armor 4, Pilot 3, Sensor 3, weapon mount (AK-97)]
AK-97 [Assault Rifle, Acc 5 (6), DV 10P, AP –2, SA/BF/FA, RC 2, 250 (drone ammo bin), w/ 250 rounds standard ammo]
Condition Monitor: 8
Matrix Condition Monitor: 10
Autosofts (2 loaded): Clearsight 3, Maneuvering 3 and Targeting 3
Sensor Array 3: Camera 3 (Smartlink, Thermographic, Vision Magnification), Directional microphone 3 (Select Sound Filter 3), Omnidirectional Microphone 3 (Audio Enhancement 3), Motion Sensor 25m, Ultrasound 50m, Laser Rangefinder, MAD Scanner 5m, Geiger Counter.
Cost: 9,225 (highest availability 6)

Ok, lets shoot it.

First can you see it, lets put it in the open 20 meters away.
Drones, on autopilot, orders are to patrol the perimeter searching for intruders, attack anything that attacks it and alert its owner if either of these two events occur. Currently load is “Patrol Mode”
Street Samurai template can do the honours using its Ares Predator V. Clear conditions, running wireless.
Ares Predator V [Heavy Pistol, SA, Acc 5 (7), DV 8P, AP –5, RC —, Ammo 15 (c), APDS ammo (100 rounds) , 3 spare clips]
So,
Pistols 4 + Agility 6 +Smartlink Wireless Bonus 2 - medium range 1 [Accuracy 7]
vs. the defender’s Pilot 3 + Maneuvering 3.
= 11 [7] vs. 6
Using baseline odds = 1 in 3 hits = 3 vs 2 = 1 net hits.
Modified Damage Value = 8P+1 net hits = 9P
Attack has armor penetration -5 (ouch!), oh, APDS ammo… yeah. Giving the drone a modified armor value of 0. So the drone just rolls its body of 4. Net hits of 1 = damage taken of 8P.
The drone has been one shotted, if the ammo was not APDS it would have resisted two damage and taken only 7P, giving it a wound modifier of -2.

Now to damage spike it.
This time our Decker template can take over.
Lets assume the worst again, drone is not running silent. So as its within 100 meters its visible.
So a direct data spike, whats the cyberdeck… oh, its not the best, a Hermes Chariot cyberdeck is not the best choice for a full decker… must be strapped for cash. Maybe it was a tech C build… otherwise go for at least a Novatech Navigator (pro tip for our decker). That said the deck itself is good for a bit of combat decking so could be a good choice for Brunhilde if she wants to do some matrix attacking.
Anyway, back on track. Lets have the deck set to attack 5 running Hammer.
Test: Cybercombat 6 + Logic 6 [5] v. Intuition [pilot] 3 + Firewall 3
= 12 vs 6 = 4 vs 2 = 2 net hits.
Base damage is attack, plus hammers +2 = 7 +2 net hits = 9
Defence is Pilot 3 + Firewall 3 = 6 = 2 net hits.
Total matrix damage is 7, the drone can take 10, matrix damage does not give a wound modifier.

Lets hit it with a spell.
[add this]

Things to consider, drone may be running silent - so would require a perception test to identify. The Matrix attack may seem weaker, but lets put the drone in obscured conditions and it starts to have comparable value to the normal attack. Also, marks add to damage, in this case two marks done on the quiet would have added +4 damage bricking the drone (but thats two more actions)
Drone could be slaved to an RCC network, changes things in its favor quite a lot.

And before your panic and switch all your wireless off all the time, or purchase throwbacks. If you're running a rating 6 comlink, thats 12 defence dice in the above attack = 4 net hits = 5 matrix damage (you can take 11), and on your next action you spend a free action to switch ALL your wireless items to off. Even worst case, if your PAN is bricked, its does not brick linked items, i would assume you could set items to auto-off wireless if the link was broken. Need to look into this.

I have rambled long enough - will add the stat block and cost for a roto-drone later.

[Chimera]

Vehicle house rules/additions time.

RE: Autosofts, as per the hotpatch errata, but rating 1 to 3 at half listed cost.
Reason: It seems to miss the cheaper for lower rating breakpoint other programs have. This is not so much for players (who will just go for 6) but more for me as a GM.

New Item:
Vehicle Armor Plating
Effect: +4 to the vehicles armor rating, -1 to vehicles handling.
Limited: Cannot be mounted on a vehicle where total Armor is greater than Body×2, only one may be mounted.
Cost: Body x 750
Availability: Body of vehicle

Reason: Drone armor does not even get close to an Armored Jacket and Drones are very glass cannon'ish. This would be one of the first things added when the gear book comes out, I'm just adding a more penalized version of it (uses up a weapon slot and very costly). Originally I had this at +6, but I need to factor in that vehicles ignore stun and therefore if armor is too high very few weapons can hurt them. Also, limiting it to Body times 2 total armor for now, this is very restrictive but keeps it off the lynx.

[Chimera]

Forgot to add the spell attack vs the drone...

OK, who has a powerbolt... anyone... no. OK. Um, electricity spells? (they do physical vs vehicles)... ah Mr Combat Mage has Ball Lightning.
Interesting, the picture is a troll, template is human... maybe just a really ugly guy...
OK, so mage 101 if you can see it you can hit it.
Next need a force, not holding back I'm going 6 (up to magic rating). This also caps net hits at magic rating so drain is Stun.
It's an area spell, so test is like grenades. This is a success test vs a threshold.
Spellcasting + Magic [Force] (3)
The test is like that for grenades (p. 181): a Spellcasting 5 + Magic 6 [Force 6] (3) Test with scatter of 2D6
meters.
Default 3 net hits.
Unlike grenades, you get to add your net hits on
this test to the Damage Value of the spell, but only if you
beat the threshold; otherwise the spell still detonates,but the hits are used to reduce scatter by one meter per hit.
OK, in this case it hits with the 3 hits adding to damage.
Hmmm rules contradict here, examples imply a dodge (PG.190), but no dodge rules present, forum check says no defence vs AOE attacks... nasty.
Do area spells fade like grenades? No. Not that I can find.
OK, so drone is hit with Force 6 + Net hits 3 = 9 damage.
Checking electric attacks... PG.170, physical damage plus half matrix damage.
Resist with body 4 + armor 4 = 2 net hits.
Total damage is 7 physical and 3 matrix.
Now for the mage... drain is force -1 = 5 vs logic 5 + willpower 4 = 3 net hits. Total 2 stun damage to the mage.

[Kaneski]

Yeah... drones are messy and rules and stuff is scattered. I wasn't sure if the whole post was a GM ruling, or just discussion.

For one - We will need a GM ruling for which Autosoft is used to dodge attacks. From your post - I'm guessing you went for Maneouver? Cool - will adjust purchases.


Most of it is good - totally agree. A few things I disagree + additional discussions later.

Things I disagree with:

Smart Firing Platform 'use in VR' thing is under the wireless bonuses, while the main body states that you may mount a smart-linked gun. The phrasing basically says the gun must be smart-linked in order to get into the platform. The way smartgun description is written, the +2 accuracy bonus applies no matter what, but the +1/+2 dice pool bonuses only apply as wireless systems to a smartgun system. No mention if Drones/SFP have the smartgun system. Therefore, I'd say that the accuracy bonus applies to the weapon, but Drones/SFP cannot get the dice pool bonus without a system.


Have to disagree with Doberman extra mounts: it's body is 4 (therefore max 1 weapon mount), and it comes with the mount for free - the only bonus is the no need to install/pay for weapon mount. The sword-hands robot has special weapon mounts for the swords, which are irreplaceable.


Have to disagree re: Clearsight, it's absence and the 'Run and Gun' config. Clearsight is simply the Perception skill for drones. Not running it is having a human with 0 ranks in perception. The only place it's used once in combat is surprise, but once a combatant is in combat and obvious, perception no longer plays a part, so neither should clearsight. Drones without Clearsight should be treated identically to metahumans without a perception skill.

It would not be capable of creative thinking, but it wouldn't be blind the instant it lost Clearsight. The sensor attack rules on p. 184 specifically state that sensors are used to detect 'signatures'. Visual contact shouldn't count as signature...


Finally: Spellcasting example. Ball lighting is an indirect spell type, which is opposed by Reaction + Intuition (just like normal bullets) - p. 283, indirect description. For drones, this means opposed by Pilot + Maneouver, just like gunfire. In the example, the drone would take 2 dice away for being an area attack (p. 190). Not sure what forums were on about - maybe about a direct/AoE attack spell like Powerball, in which case that would be true - no dodge.


Additional topics - need GM discussion/ruling

1. Drone sensors composition. The wrinkle here is that it says "you get to use the full suite". Which means the use of all 8 possible sensor enhancements - Sensor Arrays have 8 sensor functions (p. 445). First is the dice-blorp of different functions. Clearly, free sensors will be installed into drones, but their use should be limited. More sensor use as attacks in 3, below. This is more about their composition.

If one of the sensors includes a camera (for example), it has the capacity equal to rating. Which means it can mount visual enhancements (including smartlink). If it's an omnidirectional mic - auditory enhancements.

The second issues is drone combat. Since one of the sensor functions can be a camera on p.446, it's effectively the drone's eyes. In combat, perception is used for either Observe-in-Detail action or surprise. As mentioned on p. 270, drone combat is the same as metahuman, so... it seems to me that sensor use is optional for drones, as long as it has eyes (camera) and ears (omni-directional microphone) as a normal human would in combat.


2. Drone benefits from wireless devices. A few things that can be mounted on weapons that can then be mounted into drones. Ditto for some sensors. Can drones benefit from these? My reaction is 'yes', so long as its wireless, because the description of the wireless bonuses on p. 421 is for wireless connection and external information.

The question then becomes - what do these devices slave to? Judging by pages 233 and 267, they must all slave to another device - commlink or RCC. I don't think chain-slaving works, because it's basically an artificial way of expanding the 3x rating limit for device slaving.

This comes with its own problem though - a rating 5 commlink is cheap for a rigger, and it can house 15 wireless drone enhancements. Clearly - room for abuse.

Therefore, my suggestion is - drones can benefit from wireless bonuses, but if they're slaved, they must be slaved to the same devices as the drone.


3. Drones and Electronic Warfare. So... drones can use cyberprograms. Drones can also use Electronic Warfare. They don't have the Deck Attack and Sleaze attributes that's needed as a limit for most actions. So... I really cannot see the use for Electronic Warfare skill. Especially since Perception does the job (in 1).

The description for Electronic Warfare is quite... sensory, while the description for using perception (on page 135) is basis senses - sight, sound, smell, touch and taste.

Therefore, the proposal is to have Clearsight autosoft function as perception skill for the basic senses, and camera/microphone be the same as eyes and ears of a drone. Everything else requires electronic warfare autosoft - sensor attacks on p. 184, using any sensor listed on p. 446 other than drone-equivalent of basic senses. This also keeps it simple for you, since it keeps the drones as basic meta-human equivalent combatants, rather than sensor warfare excessive dicerolls.


4. Upgrades. While I certainly appreciate the armor upgrade, using a weapon slot means drones and vehicles will suffer from snow-balling effects - the bigger something is, the more armor additions it can hold (in addition to its default armor). For example - the doberman cannot be armored and armed at the same time - only 1 weapon slot; while the Roto-Drone can, because of it's special? And the GMC Bulldog van can take 5 of these upgrades and roll around tougher than a tank.

So... yeah, but no... I think upgrades are great (ofcourse I do, I'm planning a rigger), but they should mess up the drone statistics, not use weapon slots (which is a function of its statistics).

For example - that armor upgrade of +4? Maybe make the cost -1 Handling / -1 Speed. Since Handling is the limit for robots dodging bullets - that's a pretty significant sacrifice. Armoring a van messes with it's maximum 'stuntyness' and its top speed. Cost the same.

Or.. maybe do it formula like... drones and vehicles can be bought with alternate stats, by giving up 1 stat and gaining in another.

So... let's say... Handling, Speed, Acceleration have a 'weight' of 1, Armor and Body have a 'weight' of 2. You can't alter the same stat more than twice, and each alteration costs $1500 at purchase.

I left Pilot and Sensor off - because everyone would always pump as many alterations as possible into Pilot, and sensors are defined by size.

[Chimera]

Whoa, lots here, um starting at the top and adding as I go.
Adding comment from the end to the start, none of this is truely final yet. Still digesting it all. So will change it as i go.

RE: Drones using smartlink
Hmmm... Im not really thinking about the platform, more can a drone use a smartgun. To get anything from smartgun system you need the 'link' and the 'system' = two parts. So without a 'link' you get nothing from a gun fitted with smartgun, not even laser sight bonuses. As a drone lacks a link it gets nothing from a smartgun... Non-implant links are on page 444. <late change> reading sensors below you can fit a non-cyber link into a sensor so drone and the platform can 'use' the smartgun system. Nice pickup.

Doberman has historically mounted two weapons, this write-up is the same as the last edition, but lacks free autosofts. So even reading last edition text you would come to same conclusion. Rigger book in last edition clarified the second weapon. It says all pre-mounted items don't take up mount slots. This is not stated in current edition either way - you are assuming 'no' in it not being stated, I am assuming 'yes' based on past experience. So for now consider it a house rule. It only effects the doberman (and lynx) and most likely the slot will just be for my house rule armor anyway. If at all. So why bother, good point... Hmmmm thinking.... Really it makes not difference... Sooo.... True, I agree me, Nicoli agree too.. well we have put it to the comittee then. its late... good point... hmmm.... Until rigger book comes out will just leave it be then. Especially given my lack of caring.

Agree re: clearsight, I think... My write-up mentioned obvious targets, I am talking practical application. Lacking perception you could not detect a hidden assailant very well. Thus run and gun would make it VERY difficult for the drone to search for a hidden target. It can still see though, same as it can still move without maneuver. Lack of skill is not lack of function, it can still shoot in patrol mode, just badly  This mode stuff is just for me as a GM anyway - players will track the skills themselves.

RE: Ball lightning - read closer - its indirect - yes - but RANGE LOS(A) - ie its an area spell, same as powerball. You may be thinking of Lightning Bolt - its indirect LOS cousin that you get to dodge. Which would have done two less damage due to the dodge you mention - but with no drain.

RE: 1- Sensors - need to read up on this one. Yes - its the 8 function one.
Oh I missed the line about the camera getting capacity equal to sensor rating, so yes you can put a smartgun on a drone, thanks for that pick-up. That means the smart firing platform above would have it.
I interpret sensors as you do it seems, drones are as normal in combat assuming they have eyes and ears.

Re: 2 - yeah I really need to look into this one - more later.

RE: 3 - will need to read up on this - but from what I can tell sensor warfare is an optional way of attacking that replaces the limit with a sensor limit. I will read this some more.
[Edit] OK, reading done with coffee to assist. I had in fact interpreted all those rules as clearsight is perception and used in place of all perception tests. Under sensors it says 'may use' etc, so I ageee.  As you said they currently lack cyberdeck attributtes so can't really engage in EWar which seems to be the intent.

RE: Armor upgrade - I intended for only one to be fitted, thanks for that will add it to the item. Its supposed to be REALLY limited. I considered handling and cost - but the numbers are too granular - past edition slowed you down 10%-20% as the 'cost', but this does not fit current ratings of speed. Ok, for now will just say it add -1 handling, happy to pre-nerf it into the ground. I want it to be there as an undesirable option.

Sensors can be upgraded pg. 446 just buy a new array, but medium drones are capped at 4 anyway - making it expensive for that one extra point.

Thanks for all that, drones are a bit scattered as per normal so its good to get multiple reads on it. Thanks for picking up the smartlink thing and sensors. I'm onto spirits next Need to make sure I can work them.

[Chimera]

Adding a sensor array to the drone above.

Sensor Array 3 [Camera 3 (Smartlink, Thermographic, Vision Magnification), Directional microphone 3 (Select Sound Filter 3), Omnidirectional Microphone 3 (Audio Enhancement 3), Motion Sensor 25m, Ultrasound 50m, Laser Rangefinder, MAD Scanner 5m, Geiger Counter]

For a non-combat/recon version swap smartlink for low light.

Wireless bonus for a drone using a smartlink would be the non essence +1, but in the very same drone if a rigger jumped in that had implanted smartlink the bonus would be +2.

[Kaneski]

This was supposed to be mostly drones, but I gotta bring this up...

Grenades/AoE weapons/spells
Huh. Area weapons rules are somewhat... Huh. Ok, so grenades are expensive, rare and military grade, but Area spell are going to be used, loudly and often, so... this needs discussion.

So... found on forums that there's no defense against AoE. Probably same post as you. If that's the case... well, 2 things. Man... that is very harsh. I mean... frankly $100 per grenade is cheap considering it can pulp a gang, and the Rigger Template comes with 2 drones toting grenade launchers.

Guess suppression just became very vital, because that's the only way to get scatter.

Doberman
I... gotcha. Ok, yeah. Got it. Ok with that.


Autosofts
Actually, it can't shoot in patrol (unless you're overriding it) - that is the one specific restriction stated everywhere.

EWar vs Perception
Not sure if I came through clearly. And I have to take some of it back.

Clearsight = Perception skill (p. 269)
Perception = 'natural senses' (p. 135)
EWar can substitute for Perception (ie, for 'natural senses') when using the array (p. 445) for perception tests (ie, using the electronics to see, hear, smell, etc...

There's no description for what to use when using other sensors. I thought maybe EWar. Then I found p. 364-365, which described every sensor action, except atmospheric and geiger - though it's pretty obvious what those do... So I think we're good on that. EWar is useless to drones until expansions. You got the conclusion despite my scatterings


Armor Upgrade
Cool, seems way more reasonable.


Soo.... I think that's about it. Pretty content about the rules re: Drones. Just need to redo the shopping list, in light of this.

[Chimera]

Yeah I'm still thinking about AOE too... I have no cohesive thoughts yet...

Following on from the image link question in the last post, I seem to have assumed the items that slot into the camera are free... Im starting to think yo are right - in that they are not... The camera lacks a cost when put in a sensor, but it says nothing about the items within.

[Kaneski]

I've prepared them on basis of costing, yeah. Newest char sheet goes that way.

[Kaneski]

On a related subject - Autosofts.

From the description of how they work, it's clearly possible to change around what autosofts are loaded into a drone.

Two questions:

1. Is does owning a copy of the program mean I can use it on all drones? Like... If I want 3 independent observers (not slaved to RCC), do I need 3 copies of the Clearsight Autosoft? My initial reaction is 'yes'... each program being it's own copy. Which makes sense, because if the answer was 'no' - what's so special about an RCC?

2. When a drone goes down, does it take all its programs with it? This is a broader question for all matrix gear. After all, every commlink is going to have at least a few basic programs on it.

[Kaneski]

So, rigging it totally disgusting. FAQ/Errata thread says exactly how many bonuses rigging gets in hot sim VR:

http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=11514.msg238706#msg238706

+5 to everything, by the way.

Dis... gusting... But you know... comment is valid... "until you get bricked or totalled'

[Chimera]

So, rigging it totally disgusting. FAQ/Errata thread says exactly how many bonuses rigging gets in hot sim VR:

http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=11514.msg238706#msg238706

+5 to everything, by the way.

Dis... gusting... But you know... comment is valid... "until you get bricked or totalled'

Ok, calm, deep breath Kaneski

How do you get +5 - I only see +3. Not really fussed - its just extra dice not limit.

Also, yes - everything is powerful in shadowrun

[Kaneski]

What's not included in that example is the rigger interface bonus - that's mentioned a couple of pages later.

[Kaneski]

Question - do vehicles count as "Drones"? Specifically - can they run cyberprograms and autosofts the way normal drones can?

Assuming yes from rigging chapter, but checking...

[Chimera]

Has pilot rating then yes

I think they all have pilot rating these days... checks... yeah but some are real bad ratings, just 1.

Rigger interface is not included in vehicles unless specified. Drones get it free.
Vehicles have seats.

Etc. Pilot rating is the key for device rating here to enable autosofts.