[WFRP] Renegade Crowns Setup

[Chimera]

Welcome to the new campaign.

Lets start with maps, these are photos, so not small, so im drop-boxing them.
Not, 4 squares is a days travel.
Final Map Draft: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7m2ue6tw47ixblt/Map.JPG
The vinyl version: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zhbp6ddm8hngj3g/Finished.JPG

I will attach notes in a g-docs file here soon.
[to follow]
Princes:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-K8tBRERJnW3Mk6WJ3eqbKOPytLbHJShGHO0fNIEQMM/edit?usp=docslist_api

I am working on shoe-horning all my house rulings into a g-doc (main ones - characteristic bonuses, attack power and detailed armor pieces):
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JBPYuTRUw73ILPx-Fb_VF4PT5e-tjo-kielM4IoHVqo/edit?usp=sharing
Trade rules (WIP): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-G5WOa7JsBWgBAVo-LEfY7l_2E_PW4bdS9dN3pXWOJk/edit?usp=sharing

Word character sheet:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/a595rw8cwpry18f/Character%20Sheet%20-%20Att%20Bonuses.doc

Will also look to use maptools to make a nicer map. In context this one is bigger than the last campaign - which was 20x20 not 25x25.

We will make characters next session, Chris will makers hers in advance, as she will be absent for half the next session.

[Chimera]

General character creation fluff, will detail it as I am asked questions.

Default race is human using Renegade Crowns listing, common language is Tilian.
For careers use the Renegade Crowns table.

Here are two shorter optional tables, like in the companion, one covering fighters, the other covering local working types (traders etc):
https://docs.google.com/document/d/10jtVuJ9fvn2ie9m3uZ847L2aWm6rZDoAz7gfZfLjSdA/edit?usp=docslist_api

Stats are random, you can reroll up to 8 times (eight because that's the magic number in warhammer), after which you may spend a starting advance to gain another 8.
Why, because its more fun than pure random watching descisions being made, and not as harsh as pure random.

All characters start with 5 advances. But nothing to show for it trappings wise.
You may select your starting career after rolling a random one by spending an advance.
You may play a non-human by spending an advance. This includes Halflings, Dwarfs, Elfs and Ogres.

Important note on selecting a career, come with an idea what you want, no spending time thinking about it, if your not sure use my cut down tables or feel the love of pure random and spend an advance later to shift over (its the same cost in game).

[Chimera]

Also, this is a sandbox game, players will need goals. More importantly you will need goals that work with the other players goals.

As a GM in this setting I will be providing occasional hooks you can follow. But I won't be setting up adventure arcs. As such if you don't want to get anything out of the game it will just fizzle.

This does not have to be "become a prince". In fact if everyone wants this goal it will just get messy - too many cooks syndrome. So at any point be willing to answer the question "what are your characters goals?" I will be asking it to guide the adventures. Obviously these will emerge and change over time. But also make sure you support others goals and adjust your goals to others, if someone does want to be a prince talk to them about how you can help, tell them what you want out of it, etc...

Broad campaign goals for the group could include:
Setup one player as a prince.
Setup a merchant company.
Setup a mercinary band.
Explore ruins and get rich.
Run a small business like a tavern while doing side quests to help the surrounding region.

These goals can and should change.

Hirelings are something I plan to place about the landscapes.  So the mercinary bad one may be easier than it sounds, 5 players each controlling one hireling makes up 10 people. In this area that's a small army.

Also, career advances, I will be interpreting trapping loosely, more like in the Kislev book, so make sure you talk to me and the others. Don't just go for a career only to have me later tell you you trapping don't fit. Also make sure the career fits in with the groups overall goals.

[Kaneski]

This seems like a good a game setup as any to suggest this. Can't remember where I read/saw/heard this. So, going off memory here, but it was relevant to one of the warhammer games - maybe rogue trader? Can't remember which.

The suggestion has 2 components.

The first - every character has a kind of demeanour/personal goal. It's usually a positive statement of a sort that tells others how the character is likely to behave. Examples:

"I will protect those weaker than I."
"I will discover and preserve knowledge."
Doesn't have to be 'noble': "I will risk others for a profit."
"I will kill to make things easier for me."

At the end of a session - group discussion determines if a character has fulfilled their demeanour. Bonus XP for doing so. In Warhammer terms - between 35 and 50 XP was awarded, so that successive fulfilments eventually added up to an advance.


The second element is character links. This one determines some elements of the character interrelationships. In this case, they are also positive statements, but refer to another character specifically. It's generally expected for the 'target' of the character link to also help with the RP of the link. The link is not mutual - Character A can have a link to B, and B can have a separate link to A. Fulfilling a link only rewards the 'source', not the 'target'.

Examples:
"I know X's secret, and I will help him/her preserve it."
"X is soft, but I will make him/her hard like me."
"X owes me his/her life and doesn't know it."
"I think X is a liability, not an asset."

Characters have 2-3 connections at a time. After fulfilling one, they get a new one, usually based on events of the game.

There's clearly a lot of room, and warhammer is pretty well suited, in terms of both the setting, the RP and the reward system (a third of a half of an advance for fulfilling) to have this going. I'd like to try, especially since it transfers a lot of the creative process to the players, giving Chimera plot and situation hooks, so he can focus on making Shadowrun stuff

[Chimera]

Nice idea, I will raise it at character creation. We have done player XP rewards in past sessions, normally through secret ballads rather than open discussion. Your right in that it would fit this type of game. Realistically we can make up our own rules here based off what everyone wants to do.

I added the princes details in a link above.

[Chimera]

I am definately including armor degradation in the combat flow, as per house rules.

I say this as I am currently writing up a combat flow list like I did in mechwarrior, I find it helps focus me when I am running combat and get distracted by all the parameters.

It got me thinking, maybe I should include the weapon breaking rules on PG.42 of the OWA. Or something like them.

Effectively they state that weapons may break on a parry, in this case its a 7 damage hit parry, or parry of an all out blow. Break is 1 in 10 chance (could use my armor quality table). Does not factor in my partial parryies, maybe only on a clean parry, or different levels for the two types.

Adds an interesting quirk to all out blow, being it forces a weapon break test. These rules also show in the weapon breaker weapon.

Pondering... My goal with all the stuff breaking concepts it to reinforce the random and scavanging life of the border princes. Things are not as well made, or available... Ultimately I was to keep things simple, so currently weapons maintanance is assumed to occur, and I don't want to do any degrading quality type rules like I have seen. The basic rules in the OWA seem fine, just maybe changed to use my quality table, and to factor in partial dodges by saying the rule only applies to full parry/dodge rolls (the weapon takes all the blow)

[Loswaith]

For an "all out attack" you kind of have that already incorperated.  As it gives +20% to the attack, and you use MOS for the minimum damage this bumps the average damage up (not certain by howm much) and more likely for the hit itself to be a glancing blow rather than complete damage avoidance.

This also takes into account that even on all out attacks smaller weapons like daggers aren't likely to break other weapons unless the weilder is very strong.

I'd use it on your glancing blow rules as well though maybe have it be 7 + MOS (it's not going to be that large) damage to trigger the check, so if you have a good parry but still a glancing blow there is some benefit.

As to quality I'm not sure 30% is a good one to start with, as any armour better than leather can actually take more than just one hit, and even then its only one location (so 5-6 damages to ruin a full suit). 
Prehaps the 1 in 10 for normal quality, 2 in 10 for poor quality, 8+ damage for good, 10+ for best.  Or just have it all based on the damage to trigger it (5 or 6+ for poor, 7+ for normal, 8+ for good and 10+ for best).

Alternativly have it like your armour but have the weapon effectivly degrade quality on the damage so a damaged normal weapon would be treated as poor quality until repaired, or broken if damaged a second time (your wielding a weapon with a chiped blade for example). Thus good can be damaged 3 times (but less likely to be damaged), and best can be damaged 4 times (and very unlikely to be damaged).

[Chimera]

Some realliy nice ideas Los, here are my current notes, will have to transplant into drive and format for printing.

Attack order

1) Declare attack and roll - Roll both percentile and damage dice at same time. Check for appropriate modifiers.
If a hit occurs note the following.
- determine hit location: Reverse of the percentile roll.
- determine hit MOS: Tens digit of percentile roll plus AP.
- determine damage: Roll 1d10 as per normal, minimum of roll is the attack MOS (damage from roll capped at 10), add characters modifier.
--determine Ulriks fury if damage roll is natural 10, roll to hit again, if successfully damage dice becomes explosive.

% roll   Location

01-15   Head
16-35   Right Arm
36-55   Left Arm
56-80   Body
81-90   Right Leg
91-00   Left Leg

2) Defender may dodge/parry based off this declaration.
- Roll defence percentile dice. If successfull parry has occured. Add AP to parry MOS.
- if parry MOS is less than attack MOS a parial parry has occured.
- If parryied check for weapon breakage. Test if weapon damage equals or exceeds breaking threshold.
-- Roll 1d10, on a 1 the weapon breaks and becomes an improvised weapon. Best quality weapons become standard quality, and can be repaired using a forge.

Weapon breakage threshold
Quality         Threshold
Poor             6 + Parry MOS
Standard         7 + Parry MOS
Good             8 + Parry MOS
Best                 9 + Parry MOS

3) opponant reduces damage.
Reduce damage by TB, partial parry modifier (SB or AB), armor (minus any damage) and any other modifiers.

4) record damage
Reduce wounds by the remaining damage.
- if wound at or reach zero check for critical hit.
- record armor degradation for the location struck, test 1d10 if less than quality target locations armor takes 1 point of damage.

Critical table
D100 Roll   +1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10
   01-10   5   7   9   0   0   0   0   0   0   0
   11-20   5   6   8   9   0   0   0   0   0   0
   21-30   4   6   8   9   9   0   0   0   0   0
   31-40   4   5   7   8   9   9   0   0   0   0
   41-50   3   5   7   8   8   9   9   0   0   0
   51-60   3   4   6   7   8   8   9   9   0   0
   61-70   2   4   6   7   7   8   8   9   9   0
   71-80   2   3   5   6   7   7   8   8   9   9
   81-90   1   3   5   6   6   7   7   8   8   9
   91-00   1   2   4   5   6   6   7   7   8   8

Armor degradation
Quality         Threshold
Poor             4
Standard         3
Good             2
Best             1

[Chimera]

What to expect when you are traveling.
The average badlands house houses up to 10 people.
All communities have some form of fortification.
Most buildings have entrances on the first floor, with the ground level consisting of clay or stone walls.
All settlements are for the most part self sufficient, having nearby crops, livestock sheltered in the family building (sometimes in the main room) and basic tools are present for essential tasks.

Homesteads.
Homestead communities tend to be inhabited by 10 to 20 people, as such they are often one large building or two close/attached buildings. Often they lack walls sorrounding them but the perimeter is clear and many are on small hills. Most have a tower of some form to act as a watch and firing platform. Any overnight stay would be in one of the locals houses, given the harsh environment they will take you in but it is good ettiquette to share something if this is done. If they have an economic resource or craft they will have it as a supply trade good, but will never demand anything die to enforced self sufficiency.

Villages.
Tend to have 100 to 200 people, housed in 10 to 20 buildings. At a bare minimum they will have a wooden palisade surrounding the village. All buildings are defensibly built. Most towns have a shrine or temple, some with priests. Few towns have a mill or smith, but they do exist, and unless listed as a resource or craft are of dubious quality. In the absence of either small scale craft is covered by each family. Very few have the luxury of a tavern in any form, the most likely meeting place or overnight stay is the temple, or local residence, so again sharing and manners will get you far.. Trade is again dictated by resources, but many will demand common goods depending on location.

Towns.
The largest settlements on the Border Princes housing around 2000 people in 200 buildings. Wooden palisades are present, but this time multiple levels or sections are present. At least one temple is present, maybe with a few shrines. Multiples mills and smiths will be present, again not the best quality. While the town is self suufficient not all the locals are, many specialists and crafts are present. A tavern will be present servicing both local needs and those of travelers. A range of goods can be traded covering various needs, if the town has a market resource trade is bustleing onften supplying convoys traveling to more civilised lands.

[Chimera]

Movement and tactical combat.

As it is Warhammer is very light on the movement rules and interactions of adjacency. I have read the rules again, as well as RT and DW.

As written the rules specify 'engaged in melee' after someone is attacked or attacks. Also they talk about getting in and getting out of combat, not moving within. Also, all examples are only for 2-3 combatants, not 6 per side where things get messy. I am sticking to no 5 foot steps, no attacks of opportunity (I don't want this to be D&D).

So two things occurred last game.
1) One character was adjacent to Another and a goblin, but was not in melee as they had not attacked or been attacked. This felt a little odd.
2) A character who was engaged did a move action to move around an opponent. (this is not at all covered in the rules).
3) Someone tried to move around an opponent. Again, not covered in the rules, but seemed very odd.

So, for now, while I try and get my head around this I am going with the following:
a) Any Movement that places you next to an aware opponent engages them in melee and finishes the movement action.
b) Any move action (excluding Disengage and Manoeuvre) initiated while engaged triggers fleeing rules. The first engagement rule above still applies.
c) Disengage actions must be in a path directly away from the initial engaged opponents.  The first engagement rule does not apply to those who do not get a free attack.

So, revisiting what would have happened using these three changes:
1) By moving into the engagement (adjacent to enemy) the player was engaged even though they had not attacked or been attacked. They would have gained melee cover.
2) Not possible. A player could initiate a move to make a one square step triggering a free attack, and being immediately stopped as they are adjacent to an enemy. Disengage could not have been used as it requires moving away, not moving next to.
3) Not possible, immediate stop.

The goal here is to keep this simple, most fights will be 5-10 per side. These rules bog you down if you get surrounded, this is a feature not a bug, don't get surrounded. Manoeuvre can be used to do weird positioning still. I am trying to make the workload on me lower, and give the players a heads up on how I am interpreting it.

[Kaneski]

For 2 and 3 - I think the Maneuver action should easily take care of that. It makes the most sense, and can be used to move an opponent sideways and then occupy their space. There's also (from memory) no limit on maneuver actions (since it's not an attack), so if you just want to get to a place in fight - opposed weapon skills ho!

[Chimera]

I never even thought of that, manouevre is such a unique ability in this system that I really want it to stay strong and viable as a means of controlling the flow/positions. Also, as you say, it is not an 'attack' action so can be done twice giving the ability to effectively do a half move.

I'm currently looking at how parry is working, I think adding weapon breakage is causing some roll bloat or 'whiff' as it is affectionately known. I added the partial parry to compensate for attacks being removed making parry better as it has less work to do. Then I have added the weapon damage rules as they are thematic. Overall this may be to much, as the partial parry rule may be to strong and effectively be a full parry.

One option could be to replace partial parry with weapon breaking rules, and drop the partial parry. I'm not decided yet, still need to digest the thought a little more.

Main thing I need to do is the Map, I have tried a few tablet options, but most apps lack grid options and cut paste. I can get around the grid with layers, but cut paste is a killer. I joined a map community on g+ they recommended GIMP on the PC, will give it a bash this week.

[Kaneski]

We saw in the previous (Kislev) campaign that partial parry and partial dodge worked really well. The weapon breaking are a new thing, which IS causing a slowdown, but it's not an extra roll - we've yet to roll for weapon break. The formula - 7+Parry MOS is new to us - causing us to pause for a second to remember it, but I think it will speed up and up and up as we use it. The same way as partial parry/dodge first caused a similar slowdown.


In the Kislev campaign, we saw partial parry and dodge work (I thought) really well. And that was the attack power replace rules too. In our last session - we had 3-4 partial parries happen, where no damage translated to the defender - but that was exclusively because of the low damage rolls AND fighting goblins with crappy strength. Yes - partial parry is more powerful against weaker opponents. Our first encounter against orks - that was good rolls for us, and bad for them - the partial parry never occurred.

I say stay the course for now - I really like the Attack Power, Partial Parry and (until it happens to me) Weapon Breaking.

[Loswaith]

Personally I also like the partial parry/dodge and weapon damage rules, like Kaneski mentioned its only slowing down because of it being unfamilur in our usual band of things to keep in mind.  I recall partial parries having the same issue initially.

Also it's been a while since we did warhammer so getting back into the flow will cause some additional slowdowns.

All in all I think the slowdowns are worth having the overall more interesting rule playouts.  Though I pity the first person that has their weapon broken, but in most cases its not as likely to show up as armour breaking either (which I dont think we have had a test for yet either), and flowed quite well in the kislev game.


As to outnumbering, mass vs mass I think is likely the intent (so x vs y in the melee) and thus not that common for players untill they gain the edge.  kinda hard not to get sorounded when you are outnumbered.  I Think you went for a more 'base contact' kind of thing, it's almost not worth not worring about if you have attacked or not (in the majority of times you will have or will be attacked) so long as you are in 'base contact' with an enemy and thus possible to attack/be attacked.

Moving around in combat I guess is how you see it, whether it's movement with the natural ebb and flow of melee, or the more traditional stationary style of flow within your imediate area.  Eithe way in warhammer you use up a half action to do any movement (aside from maneuver) that could otherwise be used for other things.

Either of those (outnumbering/movement) I'm happy to go with whatever so long as its consistent.

[Chimera]

Cool, thanks for the feedback guys, we will stay the course then. In all my thinking about this the main slowdown was most likely lack of familiarity and I was pushing my luck with varied opponants increasing my mental tracking.

I want to keep using varied enemies, so have been exploring management options. I will need a combat record sheet that tracks round and options like parry dodge, and stance modifiers. For specialized enemies I will note down some pre formed builds and use three point templates to chuck in a few talents. Eg goblin archers, I will give rapid reload so I don't need to track loading, and can give them moves like move and shoot or aim and shoot. That way my actions are preset and require less thought. I will use all out attack more on low stat enemies, like the snotlings and goblins, so I don't have to track innefective parries, etc. Will post up some examples later maybe.